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A nuclear bomb will explode, torture terrorist's daughter?

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A nuclear bomb will explode, torture terrorist's daughter?

Yes, the police should torture the terrorist's daughter and he reveals the needed information to save the city.
133
55%
No, the police should not torture the terrorist's daughter, and risk the bomb detonating.
107
45%
 
Total votes : 240

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Aerion
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A nuclear bomb will explode, torture terrorist's daughter?

Postby Aerion » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:51 am

Hypothetical question: There is a nuclear bomb that will detonate within 24 hours in a major city of millions (say New York City). The only way the terrorist will reveal where the bomb is (and the only way to avoid detonation) is if the police torture the terrorist's innocent daughter (say she is over 18). Should they torture the daughter of the terrorist to save the potential loss of life?
Last edited by Aerion on Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Trotskylvania
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Postby Trotskylvania » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:57 am

He lies, sends you off on a wild goose-chase, and the bomb goes off anyway. What have you accomplished?
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Kostemetsia
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Postby Kostemetsia » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:58 am

Do it. Even if the entire police force is considered to be morally compromised by the torture of the terrorist's daughter, that's still a less severe loss than the physical and mental death of an entire city. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
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Maurepas
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Postby Maurepas » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:58 am

No, because Torture only produces false information, i.e. what you want to hear...

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Maurepas
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Postby Maurepas » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:59 am

Trotskylvania wrote:He lies, sends you off on a wild goose-chase, and the bomb goes off anyway. What have you accomplished?

Bastard ninja, :p

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Barringtonia
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Postby Barringtonia » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:00 am

Unrealistic hypotheticals and their relation to any topic - discuss.

To answer, if I lived in a world where the only way to stop a bomb going off was to torture a terrorist's daughter, well I guess I have to but I, one, don't see what possible way that could occur and, two, I don't see how I could possibly guarantee the results.
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Songri
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Postby Songri » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:01 am

Yes.

But don't just rely on the information you get from the torture. Pursue any other lead you have as well. That way if he lies you don't actually lose anything that you would have kept if you didn't.
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Devonshire County
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Postby Devonshire County » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:01 am

Maurepas wrote:No, because Torture only produces false information, i.e. what you want to hear...


100% right. Also why on earth would

a) she be certain to know where the bomb is

b) you to know exactly where she is

c) know that she knows

If you get what I mean :)
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Parivrtta Niraamaya
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Postby Parivrtta Niraamaya » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:05 am

Why the fuck would she not tell if she's innocent, the retard?
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Non Aligned States
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Postby Non Aligned States » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:10 am

Devonshire County wrote:
Maurepas wrote:No, because Torture only produces false information, i.e. what you want to hear...


100% right. Also why on earth would

a) she be certain to know where the bomb is

b) you to know exactly where she is

c) know that she knows

If you get what I mean :)


a, b, c) You saw her plant the bomb, but the devious chick has a neuralyzer that wiped your memories. Unfortunately it was made in China, so you only forgot where it all happened. Or she flaunted her breasts and you're an easily distracted person. *nods*

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New Mitanni
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Postby New Mitanni » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:23 am

Aerion wrote:Hypothetical question: There is a nuclear bomb that will detonate within 24 hours in a major city of millions (say New York City). The only way the terrorist will reveal where the bomb is (and the only way to avoid detonation) is if the police torture the terrorist's innocent daughter (say she is over 18). Should they torture the daughter of the terrorist to save the potential loss of life?


Anyone who engages in nuclear terrorism deserves to suffer any and all consequences of his actions, including placing family members in a position where they will be tortured in order to force the terrorist to reveal information. The responsibility for such consequences lies solely and exclusively with the terrorist. So in this example, innocent daughter can blame guilty father for putting her in a position where she is used to get to her father.
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Sarkhaan
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Postby Sarkhaan » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:28 am

Terrorist claims to plant nuclear bomb in New York City.
We capture terrorist's daughter.
We torture terrorist's daughter.
Terrorist "reveals" the secret location of bomb.
Nuclear device goes off in Los Angeles.


My, how effective.

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Demmemaria
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Postby Demmemaria » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:35 am

In Fox's "24", Jack Bauer was placed in this exact situation. He was talking to the terrorist using a satellite and he faked the killing of one of the terrorist's children. While getting ready to "kill" his last child, the terrorist folded and told him where the bomb was located. (I can't remember if it was a lie in the end.)

False torture seems like an acceptable way to go.

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New Mitanni
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Postby New Mitanni » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:36 am

Sarkhaan wrote:Terrorist claims to plant nuclear bomb in New York City.
We capture terrorist's daughter.
We torture terrorist's daughter.
Terrorist "reveals" the secret location of bomb.
Nuclear device goes off in Los Angeles.


My, how effective.


My, how let's-ignore-the-terms-of-the-hypothetical :roll:
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New Mitanni
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Postby New Mitanni » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:37 am

Demmemaria wrote:In Fox's "24", Jack Bauer was placed in this exact situation. He was talking to the terrorist using a satellite and he faked the killing of one of the terrorist's children. While getting ready to "kill" his last child, the terrorist folded and told him where the bomb was located. (I can't remember if it was a lie in the end.)

False torture seems like an acceptable way to go.


IIRC Bauer got the actual location. Great episode, btw.
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Potarius
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Postby Potarius » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:41 am

This is retarded.
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Hillppl
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Postby Hillppl » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:41 am

Terrorist claims to plant nuclear bomb in New York City.
We capture terrorist's daughter.

Transport her to NY city.

We torture terrorist's daughter.
Terrorist "reveals" the secret location of bomb.
Nuclear device goes off in Los Angeles.

Then we level the Terrorists country with with insurgent
seek and destroy missions until the Terrorist can be publicly drawn and quartered.

Not effective, but extermely instructive.

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2nd PLT
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Postby 2nd PLT » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:42 am

In real life This wouldn't work. It be more effective to have someone outside the police befriend the terrorist's daughter than to torture her, as then they would only tell you what you want to hear. If that didn't work then you just kidnap her and chain her up somewhere in the blast radius. That would have a higher chance of working.
Of course we are talking numbers like 0.001(Torture) to 0.0012(Make nice).
Still for the purpose of this Hypothetical then yes If that was the only way and it was for sure.
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Noskovalia
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missing the point?

Postby Noskovalia » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:42 am

It seems as if the point is being missed entirely since we are talking this far to literally. Personally I feel that the question at hand is frankly asking is it right to torture one innocent life to save many. Frankly as a utilitarian I find that this act of torture is indeed something which is proper, evil mind you which can not be truly justified, but a necessary evil at that.

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Demmemaria
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Postby Demmemaria » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:43 am

Also, may I ask what level of torture is necessary? If I tickle her within an inch of her life will the terrorist crumple under the humiliation?

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Barringtonia
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Postby Barringtonia » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:43 am

Potarius wrote:This is retarded.


Pretty much.

If the only way to stop global warming was learn to speak the language of llamas, would you do it?

Well, I guess..

EDIT: Still, some of the responses are amusing, I'm not sure intentionally,
Last edited by Barringtonia on Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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And I think to myself, what a wonderful world



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Sarkhaan
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Postby Sarkhaan » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:44 am

New Mitanni wrote:
Sarkhaan wrote:Terrorist claims to plant nuclear bomb in New York City.
We capture terrorist's daughter.
We torture terrorist's daughter.
Terrorist "reveals" the secret location of bomb.
Nuclear device goes off in Los Angeles.


My, how effective.


My, how let's-ignore-the-terms-of-the-hypothetical :roll:

The hypothetical is this: Assume that a terrorist has planted a bomb in a major city. It will detonate in 24 hours. The only way to avoid this is to torture the terrorist's daughter.

The terrorist still planted a bomb in a major city (LA). He just lied about its location, and continued the lie, despite the threat to his daughter.

Does my example have a terrorist? Yes.
Does the terrorist plant a bomb in a major city? Yes.
Do the police torture the terrorist's daughter? Yes.
Does the terrorist answer the provocation in one possible way a terrorist might? Yes.
Does the bomb go off in 24 hours? Well, I guess I wasn't explicit about this, but we'll assume yes. I could edit to make that explicit if you'd like.


So...what part of the scenario did I ignore?

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Maurepas
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Postby Maurepas » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:44 am

Barringtonia wrote:
Potarius wrote:This is retarded.


Pretty much.

If the only way to stop global warming was learn to speak the language of llamas, would you do it?

Well, I guess..

Only problem is when you learned the language of the llamafolk and a meteor hit the Earth....

Or...something like that, :unsure:

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Barringtonia
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Postby Barringtonia » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:46 am

Maurepas wrote:
Barringtonia wrote:
Potarius wrote:This is retarded.


Pretty much.

If the only way to stop global warming was learn to speak the language of llamas, would you do it?

Well, I guess..

Only problem is when you learned the language of the llamafolk and a meteor hit the Earth....

Or...something like that, :unsure:


You're right, I hadn't thought of that possibility....

Hmm..
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They'll learn much more than I'll ever know
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Demmemaria
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Postby Demmemaria » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:47 am

@Sarkhaan
Aerion wrote:Hypothetical question: There is a nuclear bomb that will detonate within 24 hours in a major city of millions (say New York City). The only way the terrorist will reveal where the bomb is (and the only way to avoid detonation) is if the police torture the terrorist's innocent daughter (say she is over 18). Should they torture the daughter of the terrorist to save the potential loss of life?

That part in bold. It's not "reveal" but reveal. You are guaranteed the location of the bomb. I kind of wonder what the point is of her being 18. Also, some are acting as if this innocent woman has information. Read the OP carefully, people.
Last edited by Demmemaria on Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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